Vapor separator

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Vapor separator Empty Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Sre 14 Jun 2017, 07:12

About a year ago I went and looked over the Yugo that I bought last week. One of the issues that stood out was clean engine oil in the air filter housing. I initially suspected a bad PCV valve.
Now that I have the car, I have spent a great deal of time in the shop with it. The junkyard I bought it from had it running five years ago, and said it smoked. Where I would normally expect a PCV valve, there is a rectangular plastic assembly that routes the crankcase vent and another tube from the intake manifold below the carb into the atmosphere side of the air filter housing.
It is plainly obvious the car has been sucking oil for a very long time because the crankcase hose is flattening and soft like chewing gum. I don't know whether to attribute the carbon on the bottom of the throttle plates to the quantity of oil it was pulling or the EGR that appears to have been constantly open. I plugged off the EGR on both sides with some steel plates, and then turned my attention to the other valve.
According to the Yugo parts website's diagram, the thing is called a Vapor separator. Normally I would expect this kind of assembly to be a one way check valve to prevent anything other than gasses from passing through. This valve will allow pressure to pass either direction. Is this supposed to be the case?
I have left the vapor separator disconnected, since the air cleaner housing had been dripping oil all over the engine for a long time. When I finally had it in shape to run, you should have seen all the smoke from the oil burning off. When I first saw it, I jumped out and expected to have to put out a fire. I have checked the vapor separator while disconnected and it seems to be making a very small amount of vacuum. It also hasn't leaked a drop of oil from the assembly .
Is there a test for this vapor separator, or a description of how I should expect it to behave? Is this intended to function like a PCV valve or is this something different? On the Serbian models are you supplied with this, or do you just have a breather tube with a filter?
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od Vladislav Sre 14 Jun 2017, 10:06

Nope, our Yugos didn't have vapor separator. The crankcase breathing tube was connected straight to the air filter housing, in a way that it bypasses the air filter. Ironically, Serbian/Yugoslavian Yugos lack many features USA Yugos have.
Vladislav
Vladislav
OHV 843ccm 34ks

Broj poruka : 178
Godina : 32
Lokacija : Leskovac
Datum upisa : 26.02.2014

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Sre 14 Jun 2017, 13:42

Precisely, your stuff was more like what we would buy in the '60s. That level of tech is fine with me.
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od junior45 Sre 14 Jun 2017, 13:46

Vlajko,oni su imali ono kuciste sto ima surlu prema akumulatoru,oni imaju separator uljanih para..Miljane,jel postoji test za to ili neka sema izgleda?
I have asked master admin for advice,sorry to tipe on Serbian..is crankcase preasure high? Mine yugo has factory wire brush in crankcase hose that should stop oil to get to intake..but i can smell it on engine braking when i run it hard..but no engine oil compsution
junior45
junior45
DOHC 1995ccm i.e 139ks

Broj poruka : 35132
Godina : 33
Lokacija : Farkazdin-Zrenjanin
Datum upisa : 10.01.2012

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Počalji od Vladislav Sre 14 Jun 2017, 14:46

Znam Crdo koje kuciste imaju, ja kazem da nasi Jugici nisu imali uglavnom nisu imali tako nesto.
Vladislav
Vladislav
OHV 843ccm 34ks

Broj poruka : 178
Godina : 32
Lokacija : Leskovac
Datum upisa : 26.02.2014

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od Miljan Sre 14 Jun 2017, 14:52

Ima onu kutijicu sa pregradom, na donjem delu se kaci tanko crevo koje ide na usisnu, a u unutrasnjem delu kod filtera je kao neki filc.

Miljan
SOHC 1581ccm 88ks

Broj poruka : 9430
Datum upisa : 05.03.2008

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Sre 14 Jun 2017, 21:03

No need to apologize. If anything, I am the guest here. I'm trying to tread as lightly as I can Smile sometimes Google translate misses a word or two, or translates something in an unusable fashion... But for the most part I try to not ask unless I really can't find anything.
I don't have crankcase pressure. If you put your finger over the hose, it pulls gently. I think the pull from the air filter was drawing oil out of the crankcase, since it is a greater pull. The condition of the hose shows it has been in contact with oil for a long period of time. I've been trying to puzzle through a few things on the car. The air filter has a switch on the bottom. Whatever that was, I have disabled. There are two lines that hook to the front (also disabled), and one tap inside the filter diameter, which I have capped. I ripped out all the emissions, the smog pump, the EGR, the exhaust check valve (which was hemorrhaging exhaust into my engine compartment), and am eyeing an electrically operated valve that is hooked up to some wires on the brake reservoir cap. I'm not sure if it makes some other circuit work, so I am leaving it for now.
I figure that all the crap we added to the original design for import compliance can go away. It was never meant to be there.
Some of the threads I have read on here have been very helpful; someone posted about gasoline odor. Tonight I am taking the interior panel off to see if I can solve the gas leak when filling the tank.
I'll probably be in the electrical forum later, I have a mystery connector hanging out of my bumper, and some blown fuses. I have absolutely no manual, and like I said, nobody I know other than JR has ever owned one. The fact is, most Americans think the Yugo is the worst car ever built. My boss was super mad when he saw it in the shop. This morning he was impressed with how well it ran after a five year stay in a junkyard.
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od Vladislav Čet 15 Jun 2017, 00:35

''I figure that all the crap we added to the original design for import compliance can go away. It was never meant to be there.'' Amen brother. Very Happy

The gas odor can be because of the tank filler pipe check that.
Vladislav
Vladislav
OHV 843ccm 34ks

Broj poruka : 178
Godina : 32
Lokacija : Leskovac
Datum upisa : 26.02.2014

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Čet 15 Jun 2017, 04:57

Yeah, that's the plan. I didn't get into the filler neck tonight, but it is on the list. I clayed the paint some, got another panel done. I also fiddled with the electrics.
I did find the manuals section... I definitely can't read much of it, but there is a wiring plan. If I am reading it right, this little thing wants 98 octane fuel? Do you guys use the RM/2 method there? I think the best I can buy is 91, and the cheap stuff is 87!
It's looking more like I am probably going to have to just fit it with an old fashioned breather tube. Some rubber, a pipe, a brace, and a breather filter... Just like the old flathead Dodge.
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od junior45 Čet 15 Jun 2017, 06:21

Europe and us has different values for octanr numbers,your 91 is like 98 here,i think..yugo will run on bad gas just fine,but less performance..mine has 10.3:1 CR and runs fine on cheaper gas..
junior45
junior45
DOHC 1995ccm i.e 139ks

Broj poruka : 35132
Godina : 33
Lokacija : Farkazdin-Zrenjanin
Datum upisa : 10.01.2012

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od Vladislav Čet 15 Jun 2017, 09:20

Use 91 octane as junior says, you'll have no problems. Download Yugo Hayens manual, it!s in English, it will come in handy.
Vladislav
Vladislav
OHV 843ccm 34ks

Broj poruka : 178
Godina : 32
Lokacija : Leskovac
Datum upisa : 26.02.2014

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Čet 15 Jun 2017, 14:30

I tried to download that. I can't seem to get the file. It just keeps redirecting me to an ad, even after hitting 'skip ad'.
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od Vladislav Čet 15 Jun 2017, 15:34

Vladislav
Vladislav
OHV 843ccm 34ks

Broj poruka : 178
Godina : 32
Lokacija : Leskovac
Datum upisa : 26.02.2014

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Čet 15 Jun 2017, 22:36

I ended up having to download their app, but it is a major help. It does appear the British release was a little different, but that gives me some better starting points, and good information. I think I can duplicate the vacuum circuit they show and probably get better functionality from the choke.
Now I am waiting for my new fuel pump to arrive. I Jerry rigged the failed unit I bought it with enough to work, but it is leaking into the crankcase a little because of the rig job. It should be as easy as changing a set of diaphragms, but nobody has them here. I had to buy a whole pump, and apparently you have to adjust the pushrod. I'm sure I can do it.
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od Vladislav Pet 16 Jun 2017, 00:26

Yes, the British editions were much like ours, because the emissions regulations were not as strict as USA ones.
I strongly advise you to get a low pressure electric pump. Too much hassle to repair the old one, and it can
fail when the weather is too hot, or if you redline the engine, the carb can run out of fuel, which resolves quickly but can be rather frustrating. The leaks into the crankcase can be rather dangerous, because gas vapors can ignite due to high temperatures and cause chaos. Also, replace the oil if it is contaminated.
Vladislav
Vladislav
OHV 843ccm 34ks

Broj poruka : 178
Godina : 32
Lokacija : Leskovac
Datum upisa : 26.02.2014

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Pet 16 Jun 2017, 00:48

That's in the plans. Basically, I have only driven it from the shop to the wash pad, back to the shop then into the barn. No serious running until the pump is fixed. I may install an electric later.
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Pet 16 Jun 2017, 04:17

According to tracking, my fuel pump is waiting at home. A brief read through of the manual said something about an oil trap?
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od Vladislav Pet 16 Jun 2017, 12:24

Yes, the oil trap purpose is to catch the oil vapors and via a rubber hose bring them to the air filter housing, where they mix with air and go inside the combustion chamber and theoretically while going there they provide additional lubrication. In that rubber hose should be a metal flame trap which serves to extinguish the flame if for some reason gas gets inside the crankcase and ignites. I don't think your air filter housing has that metal flame trap since the whole system is different than ours.
Vladislav
Vladislav
OHV 843ccm 34ks

Broj poruka : 178
Godina : 32
Lokacija : Leskovac
Datum upisa : 26.02.2014

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Sub 17 Jun 2017, 08:55

Installed my new fuel pump. Almost considering putting the old one back on... New pump won't draw from the tank. Looks like I am installing an electric tomorrow. It would pump from a gravity fed tank... But I'm not going around with a tank on my luggage rack.
Oil change, bulbs in the instrument panel, new filler tube. Found more problems while working. The speedometer cable is broken. That means the odometer reading is inaccurate, and I had better do a timing belt soonest. Other than the fact it isn't running again, the work is going well.
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od Vladislav Sub 17 Jun 2017, 09:20

Did you adjust the pushrod? Maybe it doesn't get pushed all the way. Check that first, but if that's okay, then install an electric one. Mechanical fuel pumps here are about $15, whereas electric are double that, so it makes no sense buying a mechanical one. Make sure you close the aperture of the old fuel pump, and also change the rubber fuel lines with quality ones, such as Wurth or Goodyear if you can obtain them. Old Yugos had Goodyear fuel lines and they would often outlast the car. Very Happy
Timing belts are a bit of a weakspot, as they need to be changed every 40.000 miles. Try and find Continental or Dayco. While you're at it change the tensioner, SKF, Breda are pretty good.
Vladislav
Vladislav
OHV 843ccm 34ks

Broj poruka : 178
Godina : 32
Lokacija : Leskovac
Datum upisa : 26.02.2014

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od junior45 Sub 17 Jun 2017, 10:32

Check for bad hose or bad fuel line before pump,to reservor on feed side..of it is not sealed,pump wont draw fuel
junior45
junior45
DOHC 1995ccm i.e 139ks

Broj poruka : 35132
Godina : 33
Lokacija : Farkazdin-Zrenjanin
Datum upisa : 10.01.2012

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

Počalji od heviarti Sub 17 Jun 2017, 18:39

The previous pump was drawing fuel just fine, and it had a cracked diaphragm. I'm pretty sure the push rod has to be right, because the previous pump worked. Surely the clearances don't differ that much?
The pump will pass through. I was seriously considering just putting the electric inline with it, especially since the pump really seems to move fuel from a gravity tank. Anyway, the gaskets that came with the pump are all the wrong size. They work, but they're wrong.
heviarti
heviarti
OHV 767ccm 30ks

Broj poruka : 114
Godina : 45
Lokacija : Emmett, Idaho USA
Datum upisa : 11.06.2017

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Vapor separator Empty Re: Vapor separator

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